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Alliance Shaman?
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Disciples of the Blade  |  General Forums  |  General Forum  |  Topic: Alliance Shaman? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Strato
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Alliance Shaman?
« on: July 21, 2006, 12:54:26 PM »

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=1141585&p=1&tmp=1#post1141585

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/burningcrusade/townhall/classcombo.html

Confirmed by a blue post in the General Forums (Page 5):

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9154678&p=1&tmp=1#post9154678

 "As we draw closer to the release of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, more of the secrets shrouding the Draenei and Blood Elves are being revealed. One legend involves the noble leader of the Draenei, Velen, and his vision. Velen’s vision was given substance in the form of Nobundo, a one-time Draenei priest who had devolved while the orcs decimated his race and tore the planet apart. Like his fellow Broken, Nobundo had lost contact with the Light, and so he ventured far into the deserts of Outland to meditate and pray for guidance.

After decades of silence, an unfamiliar voice finally answered his prayers. It was not the Light that whispered to him, but the wind. The breeze spoke to him of lost truths, of the might of the elements--of the delicate balance of power embraced by the shaman. Nobundo listened eagerly and learned all he could. When he judged the time was right, he departed the desert determined to use this knowledge to help the Draenei race.

Meanwhile, the Blood Elves busied themselves by establishing the fearsome Blood Knights. Their founding was made possible through the capture of a naaru from Tempest Keep by Prince Kael’thas Sunstrider. Kael’thas delivered the naaru to Silvermoon, where Magister Astalor Bloodsworn began months of study and experimentation on the naaru. Eventually, Astalor and his fellow wizards learned how to manipulate and corrupt the naaru’s luminous energies. In the end the wizards devised a process by which the powers of the Light could be transferred to recipients who had not earned such abilities. Instead of feeding upon the naaru's magic, the blood elves would wield the naaru's Light-given powers themselves.

Lady Liadrin, formerly a priestess, had recently renounced her vows, for she felt the Light had abandoned her people. She learned of the wizards' achievement and volunteered to be the first to bend the stolen powers to her will. With her decision a new order was born: the Blood Knights. These renegade paladins are able to harness the sacred powers of the Alliance’s noblest heroes.

These new developments with the Draenei and Blood Elves mean that World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade will allow Alliance players to create shamans, and Horde players to play as paladins, using the newly uncovered races. The ability for players of both factions to use any class opens up exciting new gameplay opportunities, with fresh group-play dynamics. Those who have faithfully pledged their allegiance with one faction or the other will finally have the opportunity to try out a class that was once unavailable to them. While Alliance shamans and Horde paladins mostly share the same talents as their counterparts across the battlefield, they will also enjoy some unique abilities to themselves, similar to the priest class’ racial specialties. Stay tuned to wow-europe.com for more information. "




I guess this is their solution to the "Alliance has the advantage in PvE" arguement.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 01:14:36 PM »

Woo hoo! I've made the comment to Aular so many times.

"If Blizzard would just let us have Shaman and Horde have pallies, there'd be so much less whining about imbalance."

Looking forward to making my DotB shammy.
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Jonsey
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 01:17:06 PM »

guess i'll have to make a shaman now   Undecided
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Renidd
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Re: Alliance Shaman!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2006, 01:24:56 PM »

i think this link confirms it
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/classcombo.html
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Strato
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2006, 01:25:48 PM »

I'm not looking forward to this change at all.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 01:27:56 PM »

me either...
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 01:34:44 PM »

It is definitely going to make Raiding that much more interesting.  I'll be rolling one, not gonna lie.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 01:37:10 PM »

I think this benefits horde more than alliance :-)
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 01:38:27 PM »

It is definitely going to make Raiding that much more interesting.  I'll be rolling one, not gonna lie.
Agreed. Raiding should be easier.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2006, 01:38:55 PM »

We will have to have a shaman grinding team, go go FROST SHOCK!!!!
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2006, 01:39:58 PM »

I think this is a serious mistake on the part of the design team (I know Liirykel is waiting for me around the corner with contrary arguments  Tongue). This is giving up on what made the Horde different from Alliance. Now we are one big happy family. We just look different. I think its BS. Now it’s:  they are ugly and we are not. I loved to hate the Shaman and I’ll miss hating them. If I was Horde, I would be pissed right now.

My two cents…   ???
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 01:48:48 PM »

Yeah I don't really like it.  I don't want to have to fight pallies in the bgs.  1v1 if they have half decent gear and any sense they are crazy hard to finish off ...
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 01:49:02 PM »

I've wanted to play a tauren shammy for a long time.  I don't know if the new alliance race appeals to me as much.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 01:49:43 PM »

Well one thing is that there wont be many spots for shammies in high end raids, one maybe two. If you have to pick between Shamans and Paladins for raids you can kiss the shammy goodbye.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 01:54:29 PM »

Sorry Thal. Shammy will bump druids for spots. As such is what Blizz seems to want. They offer no gear for for druids besides healing gear. Look at Teir 2 and 3 gear, all healer. I have to do ZG and AQ for any gear for my druid. Yet I have to fight with other classes to get the gear.
These are dark times for druids, hence the shortage of druids. Feral and Balance spec druids are hosed in this game. Many have quit playing druid and I may if things dont get fixed with the expansion. I'm a soldier, not a wussy medic.
At least i'll be able to roll a Shammy.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 01:54:42 PM »

To be honest, I don't see us having shamans affecting raiding on a large scale. The horde universally whine about how useless Shamans are in raids...save in select battles (e.g., Razorgore with movement-slowing totems).

I'm definitely excited about. We didn't all choose alliance or horde because we liked the classes. I got stuck in Alliance because Aular is all about the Paladin and Linna wanted to play a pretty elf. Myself, I would have chosen undead. At least this way I'll be able to explore a class I otherwise wouldn't have had the time for.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2006, 01:57:41 PM »

Lets just roll shamies for the Raz fight  Wink
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2006, 01:57:55 PM »

I agree Orchid, but I see another large problem.  This means that they will have to rework the loot tables in MC and such so both pally and shaman gear drops.  So this means, before anyone is even close to having a 60 shaman, their gear will be dropping and we will be DEing it instead of gearing people up.  And even once there are 60 Shamans, there will not be that many I would think(In comparison to other classes).  This also will mess over our current strats and class balances in raids.  Something to think about I guess...
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2006, 02:05:29 PM »

I think having access to a new class should be treated like getting a new tool in raiding. As new strategies come out that involve shammies in alliance runs we can rotate in those characters when needed. I have heard alot about shammies being awesome during the Razorgore fight, we own that fight now but it would have been easier if we could have used a shammy. Im sure alot of outlands raids will require the use of both shammies and pallies to make it a success.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2006, 02:17:32 PM »

Wow, this is incredibly lame. Lets keep some sort of difference between the two factions other than racial talents. Get ready for shammy to be the new rogue when it comes to looking for group. Alliance have whined about them for so long that messages like "LFM ubrs, full on shammy" will probably become common.

Having played a shammy to 60 and played alliance fairly extensively I really don't see the need for this. I did some raiding with horde and if you are compotent the pulls are not that difficult. Its sort of sad that blizzard's only seeming response to "balance" arguments is to just make both factions the same. They could have made totems that give passive buffs untargetable, or considered a whole host of possibilities. How boring....really to just give each side the other's class.

I agree with lugal also. While shammy sets are also healy (see the tier 3) they can actually be fairly effective with the large mana pool they get. Feral druids...all that mana means squat and you have to pick around for your gear as I learned scouting out pieces that Minnah would want. They really need to add some versatility in sets for druids, because if they don't...you might as well just play a shammy if you wanted to be feral. Same goes for pallies.

I hope that they make raiding instances 45 man given this change to allow for the extra class each side has. The change can only hlep in raids as you will now have the best of both worlds so to speak.

And yeah, even though I complained about it, I guess will level a shammy on alliance so I can play one again. (I already have a shammy so I'm more entitled than you nebws without Tongue)
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2006, 03:39:44 PM »

I see this as a danger to paladins more than it is to druids.
 I dont know much about shammies but dont they whine all the time about pally buffs and they have salvation and stuff now?

Paladins suck at dps compared to other classes, however druids and shammies can both dps and heal (not sure about shammy tanking)

wouldnt it be sooooooo much easier and sensible just to modify the paladin some more (1.9 was a joke), if you read the paladins forums you will see hundreds of people asking for a new tree to replace the joke called protection.

That said, I would play an alliance shammy just to see how its like, I could never play horde too ugly and dark for my taste  Wink
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Lugal
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2006, 03:57:27 PM »

Druids are expendable more so than pallies. Pally buffs are more important to a raid than a druids. Protection, salvation, wisdon, might and the various aura's. Plus they have mana efficient heals and greater survivability than druids.
Though druids do have their usefulness, but sadly, mostly in instances that are "outside".
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2006, 04:02:24 PM »

Druids are expendable more so than pallies. Pally buffs are more important to a raid than a druids. Protection, salvation, wisdon, might and the various aura's. Plus they have mana efficient heals and greater survivability than druids.
Though druids do have their usefulness, but sadly, mostly in instances that are "outside".

MOW is invaluable IMO.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2006, 04:11:41 PM »

It isn't an issue of dps between shammy and pally, people are upset over pallies being better in PvE. Then they say because they are better in PvE alliance has access to better gear and better gear means alliance wins at PvP. They make this argument with things like, "It sure seems like there are more alliance guilds progressing than Horde". Though no hard data exists on this. This change is probably directly in response to pallies having a better buff system and horde lacks it. I personally feel the comparision is way overstated. While pallies could probably use some more attention towards dps capabilities, I think that shammies need to be given a little more utilities in raids.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2006, 04:47:31 PM »

I feel that if the shammy was given the abilities to buff raids with their totems all would be fine, the Horde are mad because shammy totems only do groups. It takes twice as many shammies as it does pallies to buff raids. Less spots for dps classes which in turn makes boss fights harder. All they needed to do is give the totems a larger buff radius and make then usable by all raid members.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2006, 04:51:16 PM »

Sorry Thal. Shammy will bump druids for spots. As such is what Blizz seems to want. They offer no gear for for druids besides healing gear. Look at Teir 2 and 3 gear, all healer. I have to do ZG and AQ for any gear for my druid. Yet I have to fight with other classes to get the gear.

Now i haven't checked, but isn't it the same for shammy? Isn't there gear aimed towards healing?
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2006, 05:10:19 PM »

MOW is invaluable IMO.
Agreed. MotW is hands-down the best buff in the game. Druids also have innervates and battle rez.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2006, 05:12:38 PM »

Its gonna be real funny when this expansion hits and alot of ppl are going to be working on these pally/shammy alts instead of there mains b/c they need them for raiding.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2006, 05:32:33 PM »

so does this mean that i get to....FROSTTTSHOCKKK and throw down TOTEMS TOTEMS TOTEMS!!!!!!!
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2006, 05:38:53 PM »

You have to come back first collin Tongue
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2006, 06:31:47 PM »

Sorry Thal. Shammy will bump druids for spots. As such is what Blizz seems to want. They offer no gear for for druids besides healing gear. Look at Teir 2 and 3 gear, all healer. I have to do ZG and AQ for any gear for my druid. Yet I have to fight with other classes to get the gear.
These are dark times for druids, hence the shortage of druids. Feral and Balance spec druids are hosed in this game. Many have quit playing druid and I may if things dont get fixed with the expansion. I'm a soldier, not a wussy medic.
At least i'll be able to roll a Shammy.

sigh...yeah.    I tend to agree that druids will be at risk.  I see it also forcing more druids into restoration specs again so they have a Raid spot.  Yes, MOTW is great but you only need one druid for it and that is perferablly a druid willing to give 5 skill points up to improve it which doesn't make sense for every build.  Innervate and battle res also nice but I'm not sure it's enough to not bump druids and especially druids that try to play outside the box of healer. 

I guess we'll see when the expansion come out.   



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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2006, 06:48:09 PM »

Im thinking that it maybe a class that we really wont need to much, we have our raiding classes. Unless they make raids that require shammy's it wont be a class that allies really need. I could see one or two in a raid to give windfury to dps and manaspring to casters but thats it really. They can heal if they are fully restor specced, I dont believe that it would require druids to drop though. With that being said I intend to roll one Tongue
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2006, 06:54:27 PM »

You have to come back first collin Tongue
to much work
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2006, 07:01:30 PM »

I'm of the feeling that doing this will take away some of the interesting aspects in rolling Alliance vs. rolling Horde (particularly the fact that they're different, though be it slight). This argument has been mentioned many times, so I won't bore you in restating details. Stupid Blizzard...
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2006, 07:21:03 PM »

Well, to be honest, we dont know if the Shammys and pallies are gonna be mirror images of one another. They might make the horde pallies evil, and the alli shammies, I dunno. Cant think. Long day.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2006, 08:22:00 PM »

In a blue post they stated that Alliance Shaman and Horde Paladins will be different from Horde Shaman and Alliance Paladins and it will work like priests racial abilities.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2006, 08:47:25 PM »

yah thats cool and all, but now it does seem like everyone is going to be one big happy family lol....who knows how it is going to be when the expansion comes out.

whats going to happen when not everyone is going to buy it? but anyways.
I agree with mel - the alliance race doesnt appeal to me either
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2006, 09:00:04 PM »

We need to begin a signup for who's going to re-roll Shaman and level them, because we don't need everyone rolling up a Shaman as their new main.

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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 09:12:36 PM »

I've wanted to play a tauren shammy for a long time.  I don't know if the new alliance race appeals to me as much.
Hit me up, I have a 60 Shammy on my account I'd be more than willing to let you roll around on.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2006, 12:05:26 AM »

We need to begin a signup for who's going to re-roll Shaman and level them, because we don't need everyone rolling up a Shaman as their new main.

I will prolly be making one as a alt.  I love tanking too much to make this my main.  If I was horde I would most likely have a tauren shaman as my main.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2006, 04:24:56 AM »

My horde main is a 58 Shaman which I greatly enjoy and think I play the best of the classes I have tried.  I am fairly certain at this point that I will be making the Shaman my new main, as I love the class in general. So, add me to the Shaman list. Smiley
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2006, 09:26:02 AM »

whats going to happen when not everyone is going to buy it?

Those that didn't buy it can't play the new class or go to the new continent. Nothing more, I expect.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2006, 10:30:03 AM »

I hope that they make raiding instances 45 man given this change to allow for the extra class each side has. The change can only hlep in raids as you will now have the best of both worlds so to speak.

From Eyonix:

"We don't have any plans to increase the raid size for expansion. If anything we're focused on creating smaller player capped raid dungeons for the Burning Crusade as we've stated as early as when we hosted the BlizzCon event."
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2006, 11:33:45 AM »

Boo strato. To me a change like that would only make sense with an extra class in the mix.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2006, 05:00:00 PM »

Bad idea IMO, I like the hate Shamies and Pallies create.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2006, 02:02:37 PM »

I sorta liked this post Smiley

"And before you let loose with your OMGWTFBBQ, consider this quote from Eyonix:"

"Something we have always held to as a core design philosophy is developing classes which are distinct from each other. This means developing a class with it's own abilities that clearly separate it from other classes in terms of how the class plays and operates, both for the player and from a design stand-point.

Early on in the inception of this game, it was a hot debate as to whether factions should have a specific class, which they alone have access to. Some wanted all classes to be distinct from each other, but accessible by all. Others thought that more flavor could be generated by keeping a class unique to a faction. Obviously, if you have one side with a unique class, you should probably give the other faction a unique class as well. Thus, Shaman and Paladins became those unique classes.

However, by linking them in a relationship as unique counter-points, options are closed for our main design goal, which is to keep classes distinct. We want factions to be balanced, but don't want to cut and paste abilities from one to the other and homogenize the classes. If we went that road, there would be little difference or need for a distinct class. We want classes to be different in more than just name-only or superficial appearances.

So, in our desire to keep the classes distinct and open up new possibilities for development of each class, shaman and paladins shall now be a playable class for both factions. This decision comes at a time when we have an opportunity to blend this decision into future development. Namely, with the new races in the upcoming expansion. Prior to the new races, the Paladin and Shaman lent themselves easily to their own factions and not that well to the opposite faction (Tauren Paladin? Gnome Shaman?) With the advent of the two additional races, the choice was made more clear in game design and lore.

In terms of game design, one of the options it opens up is for specific classes in dungeon encounters. We already have several encounters that highlight the abilities of a single class or make use of a classes specific abilities. Shaman and Paladins in the previous design could not participate in such encounters. If killing a creature required a Shaman, the Alliance could never beat the encounter and vice versa. This change allows the two classes to bring their own abilities into a situation which may highlight their class as an integral part of the encounter. "
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2006, 02:05:18 PM »

Oh and for those who say that horde can't progress as far as alliance guilds cus they don't have Pallies Smiley

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/article-191-1-video-gothik-the-harvester.html
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2006, 04:58:36 PM »

Shammy interests me more then pally does just because I hear how boring a pallly can be.  Now don't get me wrong I'll try both out a bit to see what I'll like.  Draenei just appeal to me more then Tauren.  I like the whole look of the Draenei.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2006, 09:48:59 AM »

Shammy interests me more then pally does just because I hear how boring a pallly can be.  Now don't get me wrong I'll try both out a bit to see what I'll like.  Draenei just appeal to me more then Tauren.  I like the whole look of the Draenei.

Playing a Paladin means paying attention to other people more than yourself. You have buffs you have to keep on the group. You have to remove debuffs when they're up. You have to have the correct aura up, and try and stand in a spot that everyone will benefit from it  -- a 30 yard circle isn't as large as you think. You have to put up seals and judge them on the targets people are focusing on to help the DPS casters or melee out. You have to watch life bars and prop people back up when the other healers types are in trouble or OOM.

Shamans, in my 15 levels of experience with them thus far, are much less group focused. You can have 1 earth, 1 fire and 1 wind totem out at a time. It has a limited range, so you plunk one down around the an area and hope the people stay in their radius. It's a bit easier than having to move with the group. My buffs as a shaman, thus far, are for myself - weapon enchants, lightening shield. I've not yet encountered instances where Purge was actually useful, but I can see them upcoming.

So, aye. Paladins aren't for everyone Wink  It can be considered 'boring' to do lower white damage than all the other melee classes. But when a fight calls for someone versatile - it can be quite fun. I remember a guild UBRS (10-man) that was SO excellent. We pulled a group accross the bridge and a tank died. I switched from DPS (ha ha, I know) and stepped in to tank. Then an assasin popped up from behind and knocked a healer out ... and the other healer died. It was popping around, throwing Seal of Light and raid markers up, healing when I coould, blessing of Protectioning the mage at the right moment to get the sheep off and continue damage -- it was fun flipping from role to role and adapting to what the group needed. We didn't wipe Wink
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2006, 12:03:31 PM »

Well I guess I should try both to get a feel and then run with the one I like.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2006, 02:33:04 PM »

I tried a paladin once. It didn't get past level 6. As aular said, paladins aren't for everyone.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2006, 05:58:15 AM »

mmm Shaman goodness, Most of the kills in this match were like 4v4 situations where most of my group dies and i kill the 4 alliance. Even with a suck ass group i managed to pwn the alliance twinks in this match. And for those that say WSG isn't abot killing take a look at my flag returns...and i only wish it showed how many times i tried to run the flag, I had absolutely no help from my group members the entire time Sad

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=442770

This is enhancement shamman too... aka shaman easy mode, throw on windfury and lightning shield and just melee anything dropping occasional earthbind. Once i hit 60 i'ma go elemental and really rock the house. Although i suppose i'll stop leveling him and wait to start a Dranei one to be my PvP character on this server.
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Re: Alliance Shaman?
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2006, 11:17:20 AM »

Not that happy about the whole thing personally.  I rolled a shammy a while back and played it some.  Was ok, but it didn't get very high as I spend most of my time on our server of course.  And I'm sure I'll make one when they come out, but what bugs me the most is that I made my Pally partly because it's what I was on Dark Age, but another big part was because the horde couldn't have one.  Now they can and that sucks imo. 

I do see the Light (so to speak) of Blizz now being able to create some fights where a Pally can shine (other than the occassional run through Scholo or Strat for our 'PvE restricted' undead abilities), and that will be cool if they actually do it, but the cost to me seems a bit large for just a chance at that.

I'm sure it'll all wear off eventually.

 Undecided
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